Transcript:
MR. WILLIAMSON: This is Dayle Williamson, and I'm accompanied today by John Turnbull, manager of the Upper Blue Natural Resources District. Well, we have the pleasure of interviewing Doyle Lavene today as part of the Natural Resources District's Oral History Project for the Nebraska State Historical Society. This interview is being conducted on October the 7th in the Buffalo County Extension Office in Kearney, Nebraska. And so, Doyle, we'd like you to tell us a little about yourself, and your occupation, and your background. And then we'll go into how you became involved in the NRD movement. So, it's all yours.
MR. LAVENE: Well, I guess, I kind of give the history first maybe. I kind of wanted to get involved in politics or government or something, and I didn't know anything about the NRD. And I was up in the Gosper County Courthouse talking to, I don't know if you know him, Carlton Clark, --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- who was a county attorney and later a judge. But he told me I ought to run for this position, and I didn't, like I said, I didn't know anything about it at that time. But I did. And they got my signatures. And I run. And that was in, what was it, was the first election in '74?
MR. TURNBULL: November of '74.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Yes.
MR. LAVENE: It was passed in '69, but it never went into effect totally until after the '74 election.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah, the districts – yeah, the law was passed in '69 and the districts started operation in July of '72. And that – the original board was the combination of soil and water conservation district --
MR. LAVENE: Okay.
MR. TURNBULL: -- board members and watershed board members from various areas in the state. And then the first elected board was the one that you were elected to, which the election was in fall of '74, and you took office probably --
MR. LAVENE: Right.
MR. TURNBULL: -- in January of '75.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah. That's what I remember --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- cause I tried – when I looked up, I couldn't quite remember how that transitioned --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- from '69 when the law was passed --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, you couldn't do away with the board members that were elected on these. One district had over 100 board members.
MR. LAVENE: Oh.
MR. WILLIAMSON: And it was an executive setup, so they all didn't have to meet. But, so, that was --
MR. LAVENE: That was --
MR. WILLIAMSON: You're right then --
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- you started out in – after the '74 election. Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Well, I guess, I'd always been in -– on the farm all my life outside of, well, I guess, all my life. Went to college. Graduated from Kearney. But basically farmed. And lived on the same farm all my life there in Gosper County. And was always interested way back when in irrigation. I loved to set siphon tubes. That was my --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Boy.
MR. LAVENE: -- forte.
MR. WILLIAMSON: If I'd interviewed you after hearing that, I'd put you in one of the military academies.
MR. LAVENE: Oh, is that right?
MR. WILLIAMSON: Any young man that said he loved to set siphon tubes, when I interviewed them, I thought, “Boy, there's somebody that'll stick to the job.”
MR. LAVENE: Well, I did. I wasn't in the military though. But, anyhow, yeah, I went to several contests. They had them in Elwood, and they had them in Holdrege. And I won, I think, in Gosper County. And then
we –- they had the state meet in Cozad.
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: And I --
MR. WILLIAMSON: And, for history, tell us a little bit about what a siphon tube was. Now, some people are going to listen to this 40 years from now, and they'll –- they won't know what were talking about. So --
MR. LAVENE: Well it was --
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- tell us about a siphon tube.
MR. LAVENE: Well, it was a major advancement when you had gravity irrigation. You had siphon tubes. You had your dams to keep the water built up. You had a slope, whatever. I mean it was quite a jump from the lathe boxes, which we still had them sitting around. I never did use them though. They dug in individually. So --
MR. TURNBULL: Dug these into a little head canal on the heading --
MR. LAVENE: Well you had just your regular little ditch --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- the same as you did with the –- later with the siphon tube.
MR. TURNBULL: Right.
MR. LAVENE: But you had to dig. The boxes were about yea so big. Some --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Made out of four lathes.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: I've got two of them on display in my office.
MR. LAVENE: Oh, is that right?
MR. TURNBULL: Yes.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, well we had some --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Tell you this is a good part of history. That's what we want to pick up.
MR. LAVENE: Well --
MR. TURNBULL: Ted Regier (phonetic) gave those to me several years ago while he was still alive.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: We had some, but they were laying out behind the shed. And they got rid of them. Of course, they rotted away, but --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- but, the siphon tube, yeah, they –- first, they were plastic. And you just stuck them down in the ditch, and basically, what I did. You put them down in the ditch, and let them fill with water. And put your hand over them. Pull them over. And that's how you set them. Some people would pump them, pump them, but basically I, for speed, if you just shoved them down into the water and put your hand over them and pulled them over, and you had them going.
MR. TURNBULL: Now --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Now --
MR. TURNBULL: -- these were a tube that were about what --
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, curved.
MR. TURNBULL: -- three feet long with a curve in it --
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, right. Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: -- it's kind of a -- not a U shape, but kind of --
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: -- (indiscernible) --
MR. LAVENE: And they had different sizes.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: They had an inch, and an inch and a half. And up to two.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: And then later they come out with aluminum --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- with a neck on them --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- instead of the like, the old plastic --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- because the plastic would break --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- pretty easy. So they come out with aluminum and also rubber, --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- the rubber, big heavy ones so --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: And when you went to those contests and won the contest, you many could you -– how fast could you go?
MR. LAVENE: Oh, I don't remember what you –- I think we set 25. I don't know how long. It didn't –- it wasn't very long.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: But it was –- I don't if you -- the name well, Sodderhome (phonetic) --
MR. TURNBULL: Yes.
MR. LAVENE: -- he was on the board.
MR. TURNBULL: Yes.
MR. LAVENE: But he had I don't know how many kids. But the boys and girls both set, and they could beat me in Phelps County. So that's why I had to win in Gosper.
MR. TURNBULL: Was his first name Art?
MR. LAVENE: Art Sodderhome.
MR. TURNBULL: Yes.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: I remember.
MR. LAVENE: And those kids all set siphon tubes.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: And then they were all entered in the Phelps County. They were in Phelps County, so.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: So, I come in usually second or third to them there. And, anyhow, and then I won in Elwood. So I got to go to the state in Cozad. So that was --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Well that's a –- really a good part of history so -– there you started setting siphon tubes, you're interested in irrigation, and then your next step, well, you got on an NRD board.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, yeah, that was kind of the jump. In between there though --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Oh, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: I didn't even like it when we went to pipe even though it was easier, but I still hated to give up the siphon tubes. But we did go to pipe.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: You know, with pipe, but then you had to move and carry them all the time. And that was quite a job. Yeah, I got on, and I didn't know that much about the NRDs. But I learned. You know, but –-
water is for fighting. And some of the rules on the runoff, why, we had quite the go-rounds with some of the farmers that had always run their water off, you know --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- onto the neighbor, and didn't care about conserving it.
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: And, of course, you know, you went through all the rules, and tried to stop the --
MR. TURNBULL: Yep.
MR. LAVENE: Some of the --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- farmers got really upset with us. Back then, you still had summer fallow. And some of the rough ground in Kearney County. I remember one run off deal. Why every time he'd get ready to work his summer fallow, why his neighbor would have run off going through his summer --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- fallow.
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: And we finally got him to stop it, but he wasn't very happy with the board or anybody that thought they could tell him what to do with his water. I'm not going to mention any names. But then later, he come out when I was irrigating. And drove down this dirt road. And I had covered or bladed up the ends so I'd hold the water in the field. Well, I had got too much water in it, and it broke out.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Sure.
MR. LAVENE: And, of course, it run in to the -- cross the road, through a culvert, and through a neighbor, and down through another neighbor which ended up in a reuse pit. It did. But he took pictures and brought it in and wanted to file a complaint against me. But the only problem was, I didn't have a well that was surface water. And I had already talked to the farmers down below. One had just run through a little bit of his pasture. And the other was my neighbor, and he used the water, so --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: But they –- he didn't realize that I didn’t have a well --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- on that quarter, it was all Tri-County.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Can you give us a rough estimate of how much water was being used back in '74 on an acre of corn?
MR. LAVENE: Oh, God. I don't know. We used –- we got water from Tri-County. We got it every three weeks. And you was allowed, what was it, up to 18 inches.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: I don't know –- I don't recall, you know, keeping track. I'm sure I took all the water I could.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Sure.
MR. LAVENE: And it was, in the dry years, it was too far apart.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: Really, you know, three-week schedule.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, you had to pay for it so --
MR. LAVENE: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and some farmers later on or –- we even, you know, complained they was still –- when we started running short in McConaughy, that people –- no matter what, if they had a three inch rain the night before, they was due to start the next day, they'd want to run their water.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Well, it probably run for an hour and it was out the end of the field.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: But you said you it, if I paid for it, I'm going to use it, and --
MR. WILLIAMSON: And those are things that have changed over the years.
MR. LAVENE: Oh, definitely.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: When you try –- well –- when they put in reuse pits, and then use that water, I mean, that helped. It helped you irrigate. Maybe you could irrigate ten acres off of the pit.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Sure.
MR. LAVENE: And that made a difference, because, you know –- even in Gosper County we figured you had to have three acres signed up, of course the water was what, 250 an acre or something --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- if I recall.
MR. TURNBULL: I don't remember the numbers.
MR. LAVENE: On Tri-County –- so, you figured you could only –- you'd need three acres signed to accurately water one acre.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: So it was definitely -- and then, of course, that was in the 50s when the wells all started --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- coming in.
MR. WILLIAMSON: What were some of your early experiences with –- when you got on the NRD board?
MR. LAVENE: Well, like I said, I didn't really know what it entailed, but you found out really. You know --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- it was trying to control the water. Keep it on your farm.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: And use it to the best of your ability. I don't know, of course, back then, when the wells started going in, why, everybody could drill a well. It didn't matter who, or what, or when, or where. I mean you could drill a well. But I think the biggest thing on it was enforcement, and the problems we had on run off from wells in the early stages. Because people didn't have pits. And, like I said, just thought, well I'll run out to the end of the field and you knew –- you thought your rows were through then so you'd change it. But it was –- yeah, that was one of the –- And going out and examining like we had –- the tributaries, the creek –- we had Loss (phonetic) Creek, and the problems that it had from flooding and stuff –- a lot of the, you know, run too much, because nobody –- when you was gravity and you was running off a lot, then if you got a rain, why, you know, it run off too. It isn't like today when you have minimum till, and then you try to hold most of the water. Of course, now you got the pivots on practically, I don't know what, 75 percent of the ground.
MR. TURNBULL: Probably 75, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: They might have a combination of both pivot --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: But it was just, it kind of evolved. Of course, I was on the NRD board 13 years. And then I was on the Central Board for 20 years. So I kind of had to change my thinking going from groundwater to surface water.
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: And it didn't –- the groundwater people then, we probably didn't agree on everything. After I made the leap onto the Tri-County to the Central Nebraska Public Power and Irrigation Board.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: So it was a learning process. I mean, I didn't –- I'd farm, like I said, farmed all my life. But I, you know, of course, getting into rules and regulations. And going to the legislature and debating. I
mean, we always had the water laws were up for debate.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Sure.
MR. LAVENE: And going down and visiting with the senators. That was –- I enjoyed that.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: So you were on the board about six months then when you hired me.
MR. LAVENE: Was that what it was, yeah?
MR. TURNBULL: I think so --
MR. LAVENE: Well --
MR. TURNBULL: -- because I came in June of '75.
MR. LAVENE: Okay, so I can't remember, who did we have there?
MR. TURNBULL: Gene Stoklasa was the manager.
MR. LAVENE: Okay.
MR. TURNBULL: And Gene quit, and then I threw my hat in the ring and got lucky and you hired me.
MR. LAVENE: And then you left us, because you wanted to go to bigger and better things.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah, I guess you could put it that way.
MR. LAVENE: We weren't active enough, I guess. Or we didn't have as much.
MR. WILLIAMSON: That's why it's good to have John Turnbull along on these –- out here in this area, because he knows a lot of you people. And he knows a lot of the history.
MR. LAVENE: Oh, yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: So it's good.
MR. LAVENE: Well he ought to. He's lived it.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Entirely. I don't know, who was chairman, Russ?
MR. TURNBULL: Russ was the chairman, yes.
MR. LAVENE: Chairman when we hired you.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: And you was there how long?
MR. TURNBULL: Two and a half years.
MR. LAVENE: Two and a half years.
MR. TURNBULL: I left in January of '78 and went to York.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, I knew. I remember, but I didn't remember how long --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- for sure when you'd been there. That's right, I'd forgot about --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- the Stoklasa being there.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah, Gene started a nursery there in Holdrege for awhile after he quit the district.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: A little retail plant nursery.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Did that for, I don't know, a year or two and then he went to work for Central Platte.
MR. LAVENE: Oh, is that right?
MR. TURNBULL: Something like that.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: And Gene Stoklasa worked for –- in the state office with us --
MR. TURNBULL: Before that?
MR. WILLIAMSON: Before that.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah, yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Before he became manager. A lot of our people from the state office went out as managers.
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. WILLIAMSON: So we lost quite a few people, but it was good.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Because they, you know, they'd been through all the legislation and stuff, and it --
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- was a good group to get hired out in the districts.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah. And there was quite a lot of controversy when the NRDs got started, and you came on a little later, Doyle. And were people still a little upset by some of it? Some people were upset by
the NRDs taking over the old soil and water districts.
MR. LAVENE: Well, I don't recall really --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- much of that being --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- any kind of a problem, but --
MR. WILLIAMSON: It kind of settled down before you got started.
MR. LAVENE: But I think most –- when the first wells started going in, you thought it was your water and --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- you did damn well what you pleased with it.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: And that was –- to try and change that scenario, for some, was --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- pretty hard to do.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Sure.
MR. LAVENE: I mean try to --
MR. TURNBULL: It's taken us a generation to --
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: -- change that attitude.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Literally --
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: -- I think.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Well, like I said, you think it's your –- it's under your property --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh, yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- it's yours. You can use it any way, shape, or form.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: But we found out, I guess you need to --
MR. TURNBULL: I was thinking --
MR. LAVENE: -- conserve.
MR. TURNBULL: -- I was thinking yesterday about when I was here from '75 to '78, we dealt a lot with some drainage projects.
MR. LAVENE: Uh-huh.
MR. TURNBULL: Like you mentioned Loss Creek. And there were some others in the northern part of the district like that. And I didn't get a chance this morning to go back and look, but were those some
wetter than normal years in the mid 70's?
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, possibly, they might of been, because we come up with what was the IPA.
MR. TURNBULL: Yes, the improvement project areas.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Yes, yes.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah. And that was –- yeah, we had a lot of battles on --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- that too.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Because they had a pay a little more, and do some things --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- within the area --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah, uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- that you set up the IPA. They had to vote it in first of all.
MR. TURNBULL: Right, right.
MR. LAVENE: The farmers.
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: And some of them, there again, didn’t really want to do anything about it. But --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah, they wanted the other guy to pay for it.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, or flush it on down as far as you could.
MR. TURNBULL: Yes. I remember wading out in the middle of Funk Lagoon with people looking at that thing.
MR. LAVENE: Oh, is that right?
MR. TURNBULL: (Indiscernible) years, yes.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, yeah. Well in the central Nebraska project brought a lot of water into the area, and --
MR. LAVENE: Oh, yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- filled the aquifer so --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- that was kind of cropping up at that time.
MR. TURNBULL: Yes, yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: That's where those issues came from.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah, we had a –- we not only had the storm run off to deal with in Loss Creek --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: -- and some of those, but you have, where the high groundwater table, particularly --
MR. WILLIAMSON: High groundwater table.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: -- there were some parts along the main canal system, there were some, you know, some seepage problems that caused some drainage issues --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: -- for folks.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Wet spots showing up right next to the canal, and so on. So it was a little contentious trying to sort that out.
MR. LAVENE: And I had that on both boards too. Then when I got on the Central Board --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- why then we had to --
MR. TURNBULL: Deal with it there too.
MR. LAVENE: -- buy some ground. And we to –- when we put it Elwood --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- Reservoir --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- and different things --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- you do have high water table issues, and --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- they're still fighting that today, --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- some of them out there.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: So it's --
MR. TURNBULL: What was the board member's name from Smithfield? First name was Jerry. He was on the board when you were, little short guy.
MR. LAVENE: Jerry –- I don't --
MR. TURNBULL: I can't remember his name now.
MR. LAVENE: Smithfield, Jerry. I don't recall.
MR. TURNBULL: I remember Millard Johnson. Millard was --
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: -- the treasurer.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: What was the fellow from Kearney, Newboldt (phonetic)?
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, yeah, Ozzie (phonetic).
MR. TURNBULL: Ozzie Newboldt.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Ozzie Newboldt.
MR. TURNBULL: Yes.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Ozzie Newboldt.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, and I think Sweet (phonetic) Fastenal (phonetic) was on --
MR. TURNBULL: Yes.
MR. LAVENE: -- from Gosper County.
MR. TURNBULL: That's right.
MR. LAVENE: And I think he come on maybe two years later, or --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Was the first term just two years? Or how --
MR. TURNBULL: There were some of them that were --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Split terms, yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Some were two years and some were fours --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Two years and some were four.
MR. TURNBULL: -- they tried to get the --
MR. WILLIAMSON: To get the board, you know, rotated, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, so you didn't vote on them all at once.
MR. TURNBULL: Right.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh, yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Bill Umberger was on the board when I came.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah. But I don't recall, you said it –- a Jerry?
MR. TURNBULL: Jerry. I cannot think of his last name. Doesn't matter.
MR. WILLIAMSON: No.
MR. TURNBULL: We'll think of it. We'll remember as soon as this is over.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Well I remember the other name.
MR. LAVENE: Well, Larry Reynolds, but he came on later.
MR. TURNBULL: He came on later.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Yes.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: He wasn't on the board while I was there.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: I've gotten well acquainted with him over the last 10, 20 years or so.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, he's a --
MR. WILLIAMSON: I knew him as an air guard pilot.
MR. LAVENE: Oh yeah, yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Yes.
MR. LAVENE: That's right. Yeah, he was in that.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, yeah. I'd see him there.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah, Larry and I have lots of flying conversations --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: -- when we're together.
MR. WILLIAMSON: He didn't fly low and slow though.
MR. TURNBULL: No. He called me crazy.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, that's good.
MR. TURNBULL: That's better than what's other people have called me. So I'm happy with that.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, what other things would you like to comment on, Doyle, and it's good to pick up your thoughts here as you started as one of the very first board members, elected board members.
MR. LAVENE: Right.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Well I said it was, it was quite a learning situation really.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: I'd never, you know, thought about any type of rules or laws or anything that –- on water.
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: And there really wasn't before the --
MR. WILLIAMSON: No, no.
MR. LAVENE: -- NRDs --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- started, there wasn't any kind of regulations --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- that I know of before.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: They might –- I don't know what –- I wasn't acquainted with the conservation districts, so I didn't know exactly what their --
MR. TURNBULL: Well they didn’t --
MR. WILLIAMSON: They really didn't have any. And of course, the NRD law didn't cover all that. But it's just like --
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- any law, you just keep improving, you know. You don't --
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- no one writes a perfect law. And so --
MR. LAVENE: No.
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- you gotta keep doing it.
MR. TURNBULL: Well, and that first groundwater management act, that was passed in the spring of '75 by the legislature and went into effect that summer of 1975. And so that was the one that set up that we
needed to regulate irrigation run off from wells.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: And so that –- we were just –- I remember Jim Cook on your staff helped us write those first set of regulations.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, yeah. I think we --
MR. TURNBULL: And then you guys sent me out into the field to make it go work. And I remember dealing with those guys saying, “No, it's my water. I can run it off if I want.”
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, that was –- I think that was –- it was a learning experience.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: It definitely was.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah. We started out talking about siphon tubes, and then we went to gated pipe. Say something about the current day, Doyle, with center-pivot systems off the canals and so on. You want to comment on that?
MR. LAVENE: Well that's been a --
MR. WILLIAMSON: That would be good for history here.
MR. LAVENE: -- that's been quite an improvement for the amount of water we use on even -- I mean with the wells and with surface water. But, I mean, first and foremost was with wells. And you kind of learned to come in -- I don't know they've been here, what 50 years? Pivots? I mean, but --
MR. TURNBULL: Probably.
MR. LAVENE: -- it took a while. I know I bought some ground from my uncle. And I was gonna –- I checked out to -- see this was back in '70 something. No, maybe it was later than that. Well, I can't remember. Anyhow, I looked in to it. And, of course, I wasn't acquainted with pivots so I –- gravity was all I knew, because we didn't have any pivots. So I got an estimate from the land leveler who was a good friend of mine. And, of course, he come up with a bill like around $20,000.00 would be to level it. And it was going to run two ways. And you have to lay all this pipe. And I got to looking into it, and that's when I decided maybe to go with the pivot. And, I mean, I'm glad I did.
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: Because then they didn't cost near as much. I mean the leveling, and then I'd still have all the work with gated pipe and everything. But that's, you know, that was something that changed my mind. And once you had one, why you wanted one everywhere you could put one. What you could afford to put one.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Because, yeah, it's just so much handier. I mean there's problems with them. They get stuck. They have some problems with them.
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: They always get stuck on a hot, hot day. And you have to go out in the middle of the cornfield and change a tire or something. So –- or drag it out, or take out –- level the rock, and try to back it up and go forward, and so. And they sometimes run over vehicles and run up on barns. There was a neighbor of mine that went up. They put it in. They had a farmstead right there. They thought it would miss, and it went up on the barn. Tipped everything over. And I -- friend of mine had his pickup. They was out there running it, and climbed right over the top of the pickup. I mean it's amazing what they'll do.
MR. WILLIAMSON: I love that story. You know, that's only the second one I remember about. We had a good guy from Ravenna, Nebraska, Herman Link. And Herman got a brand new pickup –- or not, a brand new center pivot. But he didn't have a grainery moved yet. And, but he –- it was getting dry, so he thought he better go out and irrigate. He took his pickup out, and he was reading a book and he went to sleep. And next thing he knew, he thought it was raining. And the center pivot was climbing over the hood on his pickup truck.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: So, I thought that was the only one in Nebraska. Now I know --
MR. LAVENE: No.
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- another story.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, there's another one. They weren't in it though.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: At that time, they were running it. But they've gone, you know, on Highway 23. They've gone over the railroad tracks and right out on the highway.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Rick Therell (phonetic) had one.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: It went right out –- it was out on the highway running.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, this is --
MR. LAVENE: Still running.
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- this is good for the historical --
MR. LAVENE: I mean they'll go most anywhere.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, yeah. And it turned wild. Well, Herman was a great guy, but we really had to laugh. Because one time we took a bus tour and Herman loved to talk to people, and by-gosh we left him. We didn't realize that. He had to find a car and a guy to catch up with the bus. And after that he was always known as the missing link.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, that --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Just a little humor in there. These well-told stories about, you know, irrigation and what the NRDs --
MR. LAVENE: Well the --
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- have done --
MR. LAVENE: -- the pivots I had another one. I –- that first pivot that I put in, which Central Valley did it all, Terry Gertis (phonetic).
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: And then my neighbor put one in. And they'd been in there several years. And one morning I went over to check my pivot, and here come the pivot but it was dragging the end section where the end gun was. It was dragging that through the field.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Well I looked over in the neighbor's, and his -- I forget what it did to him –- but anyway the two --
MR. TURNBULL: Had --
MR. LAVENE: -- lined up finally, and met at the same crossing. And there wasn't room. But they tore each other apart. But I think his got by without much damage. But anyhow -- but Terry Gertis said, “Well that's our fault. We should have” --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- when we went out and run their little deal and see where they was going to be --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: So he fixed it. Never charged me anything --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Wow.
MR. LAVENE: -- to fix it. So, but that was kind of strange that they'd been there several years. But, you know, they'd never had met right at that --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Called a synchronization.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, finally. Yeah, they just come together.
MR. TURNBULL: I bet your stomach sunk when you drove out there and saw that.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, yeah. Hell, I've had them blow over, two or three of them.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: In the old style aircrafts, you shoot bullets between the propellers, so.
MR. TURNBULL: Yes. Yeah, that's right.
MR. WILLIAMSON: I always worried about that.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, well I never had that deal, but --
MR. TURNBULL: So, Doyle, you said that your wife also served on the board.
MR. LAVENE: Right.
MR. TURNBULL: That was after you got off the board?
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, right after I got off, I think.
MR. TURNBULL: Okay.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, she served several years didn't she?
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, she was chairman of the board.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: She would've –- I got on, let's see '75. I was on thirteen years, '88.
MR. TURNBULL: Okay.
MR. LAVENE: And she got on –- I think she was appointed to my –- took my position when I --
MR. TURNBULL: Okay.
MR. LAVENE: -- went from, from the --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- NRD over to the Central --
MR. TURNBULL: Central.
MR. LAVENE: -- Board.
MR. TURNBULL: Okay.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah. So she'd a been there.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, that was good. Boy, that was a family affair. I remember that.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: So that's great, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Of course, then we had disagreements when we –- but more so with my number two son. (Indiscernible) bring that in, but, I don't, they're going, you know, next week before the supreme court.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Next Tuesday -- well week from today.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Their going to --
MR. WILLIAMSON: You bet. Yeah, you're proud of him. Boy that's great.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, we're going out there.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Now what's this over now that --
MR. LAVENE: Kansas, Nebraska law.
MR. TURNBULL: Kansas --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Okay, yes.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, goes before the United States Supreme Court, so.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, he's been handling that, so.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: That's Justin?
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Justin, yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah, we've dealt with him from York several times. And I've always been impressed with the way he handles things.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Well he's been on that issue for --
MR. TURNBULL: Long time.
MR. LAVENE: -- a long time.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: I don't know if it will ever end, but --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Probably not.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Probably bring up --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- something else.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Well it's good though to have a person with some background in the, you know –- knowing the issue --
MR. TURNBULL: Sure.
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- and growing up there.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: And not just coming in. So that's good.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Well, the other thing is Doyle and I served together on the Nebraska State Irrigation Association Board for several years.
MR. LAVENE: Yes.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Oh, okay.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: I was looking at that. We were –- I can't remember if I was chairman in '93 when they was what the 100 –- was that the 100th anniversary?
MR. TURNBULL: Yes.
MR. LAVENE: It was the 100th anniversary.
MR. TURNBULL: I think that was probably my first or second year on that board.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, we had a lot of contact –- we had a meeting out in North Platte when Mike Jess was up, or they were --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- debating –- I don't know if that was the first time he was going to be hired, or I think we supported him.
MR. TURNBULL: I think so. I think that's right.
MR. LAVENE: NSIA did.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: At that time.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: I don't remember even who was governor then, but so –- yeah, I've been involved with the water for, well, about 34 years. I was --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- on Central Board for 21 years.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, thank you so much for your service. Anything else you can think of? And we don't want to take too much of your time and, but --
MR. LAVENE: Well, it's still an ongoing situation.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Thank God we've had it, or else we'd a been in dire shape, or else the feds would've probably come in or somebody would've taken over. So, to have the local representation is definitely better than having some other people that don't understand it come out now. Just like that new ruling they're coming out with on water with the EPA.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Waters of the US.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, that's very controversial right now.
MR. LAVENE: But, I mean, it is. It's been good to have --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- and you could go talk to them. If you know –-
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- I had a lot of people that would come talk to me --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- cause --
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- there were issues. And with water there's always issues.
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah. Yeah, and Nebraska was strong for local control. And, of course, when the NRDs went in, “Well,” people said, “we're losing local control.”
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: But really, the small districts didn't have any control. They just, you know, and --
MR. LAVENE: Before --
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- the NRDs really made the big difference, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: I did the Kansas –- we went down there several times. And I can't remember, I think I was on the NRD board. But they had their groundwater --
MR. TURNBULL: They have groundwater districts in Kansas, but they're not –- they don't cover the whole state. They're --
MR. LAVENE: No, they're different areas.
MR. TURNBULL: There's some --
MR. LAVENE: The one in the western, district 5 or something. But were they elected, or were they appointed? I --
MR. TURNBULL: I think that their board members are now elected.
MR. LAVENE: Oh, they are now like --
MR. TURNBULL: I think they are, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Before they might of been from, I don't, from surface water districts. Some of it, or --
MR. TURNBULL: Some of it, and some were groundwater irrigators. I don't know what their requirements are. But, you know, we got active when I was in Holdrege with the Groundwater Management Districts Association.
MR. LAVENE: Oh yeah, GMDA.
MR. TURNBULL: GMDA. And --
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, I served on that board.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: You were on it. And when I went –- I was on it for awhile after I got to York. Frank Dragoun was on there for awhile.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, yeah, we went to --
MR. TURNBULL: And so, we'd hold those meetings, you know, in Kansas, Colorado --
MR. LAVENE: Texas.
MR. TURNBULL: -- Texas, down in the Panhandle.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: It was always a contrast to go to those meetings, and hear how other states were doing groundwater management.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Just black and white difference as to how to go about it.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Texas especially cause --
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, they --
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- they --
MR. LAVENE: -- about pumped her dry.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Well and the folks there own the water, you know, so --
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: Well what's interesting today is to read about what California is going through. They got a real drought situation.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: So their surface water supplies are extremely low. And now they've got this rush on groundwater drilling, because they basically have no groundwater law. Particularly --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. TURNBULL: -- in the central valley of --
MR. LAVENE: Oh, is that right.
MR. TURNBULL: -- California.
MR. LAVENE: I was wondering how they --
MR. TURNBULL: So, they're having the same arguments that we had in the early and mid 70s.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah. It's surprising.
MR. TURNBULL: It's –- you could take our notebook, and say why don't you go to page 3, item 3? It covers what you're talking about.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah. I didn't know they had –- were able to drill groundwater wells.
MR. TURNBULL: In some parts they are, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Are. But like in Colorado, I mean, that's what we always –- the board say we always said that all the water run up hill to money --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- in Colorado. Because they actually had a water court.
MR. TURNBULL: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, we went out there several times listening to some of that. It was --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- I mean that was, you know, good thing we didn't end up with that here. I mean, we've been to court a lot, but --
MR. TURNBULL: Nothing like that.
MR. LAVENE: I mean, they --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh. Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- I mean, a lot of people sold their water rights.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: Of course, they got a lot of money for them. But then you just turn it into more --
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: -- because they don't get hardly any rainfall so you --
MR. TURNBULL: Right.
MR. LAVENE: -- basically lost your --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh.
MR. LAVENE: -- occupation --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Uh-huh.
MR. TURNBULL: Yes.
MR. LAVENE: -- from out there.
MR. TURNBULL: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: It's still a system that, I don't know --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: It's still a fighting system.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, good. I think we'll wrap up --
MR. LAVENE: Okay.
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- unless there's something else. And really a pleasure to interview you, Doyle. And thanks for all your service. And thanks for giving us part of the history of starting with the NRDs, and also one pickup that got run over.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah. I think that –- climbing up on the barn was worse.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah.
MR. LAVENE: It couldn't get over. It got over the pickup.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, yeah.
MR. LAVENE: But couldn't get over the barn.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah, the barn was a two story barn.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah that was --
MR. TURNBULL: That's a good one.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, we'll finish on that happy note. You know there's a lot of crazy things that happen.
MR. LAVENE: Oh, yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: And they all cost money.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMSON: And you go to bed at night and wonder, “Why did I do that?”
MR. LAVENE: You think about them pivots. I know we had another one. We had a hired man that started one. And, of course, he was going to get back to it. It was first time around. And it was a shorter pivot. But he got busy with something else, forgot about it, and by the time he got back there it'd run over the canyon and --
MR. TURNBULL: Oh.
MR. LAVENE: -- down in the trees and --
MR. WILLIAMSON: Yeah. Somebody didn't use the circle.
MR. LAVENE: Yeah, he was going to try to make a circle, but we needed to stop there.
MR. WILLIAMSON: Hey, well thank you so much. I tell you. We've –- I think been on about 35 minutes, and that's --
MR. LAVENE: All right.
MR. WILLIAMSON: -- that's just great. So thank you so much.
